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@pni, @troppone: There's some point in that, but at the same time I think that there's some point in that term... I want to separate those who use the system voluntary (=end users) from testing guys etc. But, this doesn't mean that it would be a "dumping ground", as they can always change to another system if they don't like mine.
It seems that most large world-changing innovations start out as something "that's just a gimmick". The light bulb (as Saara said), but also the telegraph, the telephone, the SMS, the Internet. They were all meant to transfer data between organizations or professionals, not for people communicating with people. But that's what they all ended up doing, and that made them huge.
Audiences are making this cycle faster through recommendations, ruses, mash-ups, remixes. This is what explains why "Nenäpäivä" makes charity pop.
When we use the term 'service users' in a government context, their is the notion that we 'own' the service, and citizens merely 'use' it. This relationship does not accurately reflect what the case should be, that any modern services should be both designed and owned by the citizens, with government agencies merely 'delivering' them.
Reinikainen commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@troppone Good point. And the examples I gave were not meant to change behaviour. It just happened. Does this mean that designing for behaviour change is a) difficult, b) rare, c) impossible, d) pointless? Should we just design new things and let the "markets" eg. people decide what they will take and run away with?
I contest the idea that young people are fleeing from facebook as baby boomers move in, they just use it in different ways, and maintain the use of those functions that their other social media channels cannot accomodate.
Reinikainen commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
spot on @reinikainen! Many gov organizations are still learning to think of citizens as customers -paradigm, now you're asking for a "co-creator/-owner". Pretty scary, right?. :)
@Reinikainen But if visible authoritative sources repeat the message enough, that young people are leaving FB, then young people will start leaving FB. :) There's the power of mass/social media, in controlling the hordes of guinea pigs ("sopulilaumat").
@Reinikainen: I hate the term 'customer' or 'user' in govermental context.
E.g. "Leikkipuisto Piian tavoitteena on, että asiakkaat saavat monipuolisia elämyksiä, viihtyvät ja tuntevat olonsa turvalliseksi puistossamme." Leikkipuisto Piika website
@tarmo Still, I know of very few examples of people deleting their facebook profile entirely, for no other reason that it is their most effective contact book. They may stop playing games, graffitti-ing walls, and resending chain spam, but their profile is still there, and they keep returning to it when they need to get in contact with their social graph...
Reinikainen commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@matnel I personally use the term citizen, and I think that I am employed by the citizen to deliver them the services they demand.
Reinikainen commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
The Wikia's "fan-wikis" (http://www.wikia.com) is an interesting new form of activity in fandoms. For instance, the Lostpedia and WoWWiki and growing fast:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_...
http://www.wowwiki.com/
For a contrasting view on crowdourcing see http://www.charlesleadbeater.net/oran... (It's a practical approach too!)
Reinikainen commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
Thinking of Kathy Sierra's Learning increases resolution. The more you know, the more you get out of the thing your interested in. Fandom.
@pni Related to this, one of my favorite posts by Kathy Sierra: How to be an expert which could be retitled as "How to be a fan".
@viilee are you sure? management?.... welll
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@andreuchis collaboration is an organizational problem. and it's management and organizational theory that deals with that domain, doesn't it?
@ville in theory yes... but in practice most of management theory dwells in other stuff. IMHO yes collaboration and yes many disciplines but is not design and is not management (alone) that will be able to sort stuff out
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@andreuchis: so, to sort out this multidisiplinary problem, we need a multidisiplinary team to solve it :D
@juhak Apple is rather closed compared Adobe, Microsoft and open source software projects... but still they have a huge fan base... so being closed and exclusive may also attract fans...
hanspoldoja commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@matnel and according to Yrjö it is not even going to be a team.... (REF see his book from teams to knots)
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@hanspoldoja: spot on, actually, their phone is one of the closed systems I've seen. (Note, I work for Nokia, biased oppinion warning!)
@andreuchis sure, not one discipline. and i find it very problematic that management people are not involved in applied research projects that build heavily on collaboration - this might even make the researchers make totally wrong conclusions. the collaboration needs to be problematized and tackled with expertise on that. but maybe this is not the place for that discussion.. :)
@matnel but please hear we are talking about FANS (and with fans) .. what more transdisciplinary than that
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
Well the apple case is interesting if we can see their OPENESS in other levels....
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@matnel I wonder if all these "unofficial Nokia blogs" for each N-series phone are created by Nokia to feed their end users: http://www.google.com/search?q=the+un...
hanspoldoja commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@pni his claim was that you can not go an "collect" fans or you cant "own" them
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@pni Good point. There's possibly levels of dedication. If you're a die-hard fan of Michael Jackson (sorry, pun not intended) and attended his funeral, you are a member of a small elite fan group. But people who like his music are almost in the majority. But again, there's lots of music trends, so any one artist is a minority in the whole scene.
@tarmo I am afraid you havent seen around enought. i can point you out to many windows fans (also in this school)
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
Collective note making, now: http://bit.ly/open-summary - no, on second thought, don't go there! Etherpad can't handle the traffic!
@andreuchis Hmm... So a local fan base? Since Windows in TAIK is not the de facto majority standard, actually using Windows makes you a member of a subculture?
Well, at least openly proclaiming that you like to use Windows makes you a member of a subculture.
Travela fans, anywhere? How about Sole TM fans?
@tarmo my dear tarmo you havent been around outside media lab have you? there are more windows machine in this building than macs or linux (agh!! shame on us)
andreuchis commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
Facebook groups: Linux (27,502 members), Mac (5,621 members), Windows (1,081 members). So there are Windows fans :)
hanspoldoja commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@Lemps thought this perhaps could interest you
I was discussing with @pni about a recent Green Day gig I went to in Stockholm. Fan participation was taken to (afaik) a new level, as three different fans were brought in to sing a chorus & entertain the audience (18000 people!). It worked! And imagine the loyalty brought by that, as well as the desire in others ("I could do that"). Besides, they had to run and stagedive, a great trust network examle.
Fan participation was so "corely" in the format, that was the point. (vs. e.g. old school-stage diving, singalongs etc.); this was totally new level of interaction not ad hoc or us&them. Was something totally new for me anyway.
@ikajaste what I'm after is that... hmm.. magazines (you those paper things) have readers, they're not users of paper things. Radio has listeners. Television has viewers, not television users. In a way television viewers are participants of the mass action of broadcasting, but that does not really fit, does it?
It's maybe not that easy to define what people connected to a certain site are, some are readers, some producers, some listeners, but all are there because something (getting things done, find links to information, be entertained, sort out their economy... you name it) and that's is their motivation to use a particular service, but they're not simply using a site for the sake of using a site and that's why I dislike the term user.
We should stop calling people end users. This is a continuing generalization, for sf writers, wrong.. @pni
DanieleBeta commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@pni: I admit it's bit of a bend, but I do think "participant" is flexible enough to fit even a newspaper reader. As a reader, she's a recieving participant in communication.
I agree completely with your dislike of implications that "user" has. And exactly from that point I do think "participant" might work. It describes the reason (participating in some way), rather than the mediating action (using).
However in some cases "end user" or "user" is still a valid term. If we're talking about constructing a computer system, what is relevant for the role is in fact that someone is using the system. It's a different layer of talking.
@tarmo fans as a distinct part of domain users, marketplace, but users useful and used by the brand and targeted by specific campaigns, this is why it is not completely wrong to say that that kind of campaign is not targeting a user. Curiously, fan could be called so because attracted by the full marketplace itself, so self-referential. Than I can speculate on openness.. marketplace.. if a marketplace of developers is a kind of reality or target and so subculture itself.......
DanieleBeta commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
@tarmo so, imho, developer is a great fun but also "user" and genuine natural target of a different subcultural domain..
DanieleBeta commented on posted to #OPEN2009 06.11.2009 (en)
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