#OpenFinnovation

Have had many...;)

You mean light, heating , elevator controls, saving electricity? being automatic based on weather/time of day/customers. So?

@saarikko It's a field where Finns could do quite a lot. We've a demanding climate, need to conserve energy. And we love to solve complex problems.

@vimma Yes, I mean that. Security and safety are important issues as well. For good automation we need functional measurements of important parameters. How well are these issues handled in big buildings?

Luckily we don't have these kind of skyscrapers . Lighting/heatig automation is common place , I feel. Asuntomessut had some energy considerations for new buildings, but is it too expensive for old buildings? e.g. solar panels etc. And here north, how realistic those really are? Are there any architects etc in Qaiku to comment...

@vimma You ask an important question. I'd also like to see more architects, systems engineers, building technology experts, people from pulp, paper and sawmills. I think we've here a sub-culture of web 2.0 and social media experts and evangelists but we need to expand the discussions to attract the old school and traditional export industries to Qaiku. Any ideas about how to do it?

@visualradio : Agree, these kind of services are mainly used by IT people or SoMe "specialists/believers". For others, e.g. schools could be one way - some qaikuan contacts some teacher and asks her e.g. above questions, and then request that she/students come here and enlighten us . Or just stickers to some architect office . But then again, what is the benefit for content owners to be in Qaiku? Their business is to know stuff - this might be too free for then -- then we can go to that open money discussion to give them something back.

OK, but this is saturday ranting do not mind me...

I want to give you an example. (sorry my english is not very well) . In Jyväskylä there is a high house, 13 floors. The elevator of the house was broken long long times and again and again. The situation was terrible. The house has built by YIT, our main buildfirm. But it could not manage the situation.There were old people living on the upper floors and the firm had to help them many ways. There were seats on some floors for people going to their homes. Summa summarum: the control does not work very well. There must allways be at least two elevators in the high houses, I suppose.

@vimma The benefits of openness isn't clear to traditional businesses. They've been trained to operate within niches, behind firewalls, and activities defined by NDA:s and strict contracts. This is another world. It's like comparing Classical Music and Rock and Roll.

@Samu You've a good point. It's not only about building automation but good design. I visited a building tower in Tapiola early this week and there was two elevators (3 persons for each). The tower was built in the 60's. Did they change the building rules?

This house in Jyväskylä has been built lately and there were many articles about this house. I dont know what the rules or law says nowadays. But I think the firm tries to save. Elevators might be global. Kone´s elevators are good for Finland but there might be problems because of different ways to build elevators if the firms are foreign. The problems are very complicated to solve, too. There are so many firms together in elevatorcases. I lived in a house, where was such problem.

@Samu You take up another aspect in the building industry: there are so many suppliers involved in the "supply chain" that the end-user don't get the services they've be promised. The builders do their best in the sales phase but a building has a life-span of up to n x 100 years. Some of the technology has to work 20 to 50 years. Most of the sub-suppliers have gone bust before the building will be renovated. Nobody talks about these kind of problems when price only is an issue. What could social media do to open up a dialog? Or many to many discussion!

I think, that it´s good, if people know and think about these problems. People have so blue eyes when buying flats, though they are very expensive. If for example I buy a flat and the seller is for example Skanska, I have contract only with Skanska. And if there is in the Skanskas house for example Otis-elevatorproblems, it´s only Skanskas problem to solve it, not mine. I have only one contract. In many cases the firms try to say, it´s not our fault, it´s their fault. Never mind, there is only on contract. And it´s good if people can get for example this info via social media.

Why there is no money for anything? E.g. why the street lighting is not on -- autumn time and it's dark, so it feels so silly that every other light is burning, or some area's lights are shutdown totally. Why it is always about saving money, like those @Samu 's case -- living quality would be better for upper floors, if things planned would just work. I guess that is also one reason why the dream house for Finns is the detached house (omakotitalo), where you are in control of changes.

Ja eikö me voida oikeasti vaihtaa suomeksi ;)

@vimma I start an Taloautomaatio discussion in #Suomi2. Here is the link: http://www.qaiku.com/go/3mzd to Taloautomaatio in Finnish.

Has anyone read this Timeless way of building ? Basically awesome book, looks at buildings and town's structure as a one "symbiosis" -- thinking where are the work areas, where living areas and how to join them suitably. Don't know if his thoughts have been implemented anywhere.

@Tuula Very interesting. Are you an architect or with the building industry? I'd like to ask about the one million square meter of FREE office space in the Helsinki region. But there is a lack of flats for rent. Why does the building industry do so big capacity mistakes?

@visualradio No, sorry, just software engineering (testing + all kinds of related areas mainly) . I stumbled to Alexander's books at some point of University studies and it totally wow'd me.

The architecting principles mentioned in the book are adaptable to all kinds of architectures (from real to sw). Maybe if city is planned properly; it would avoid that kind of things office space over calculations and focus to the living quality...

@Tuula You bring the idea of Service Design and Social Engineering to Building Automation and to Asset development.

Ok, did I? ;) Nice summary. But that's real life -- things are too scattered.

One person plans the town, one plans the building, one constructs it. Only after that, the real people, come to picture: those who live somewhere, need some services, work place and parks etc.

@Tuula What you say is sad and true. This applies to many other areas in Infrastructure Concstruction. I came to think about the nuclear power station building in Olkiluoto. They sell something that hasn't been designed yet and we buy the prototype. A more thorough planning process could be great in new fields like bioenergy and CHP just as in windpower etc. What if we don't understand the possibilities of open innovation? Could it give us new possibilities?

Folks, interesting topic, I'm also in a project that researches people behaviour, building automation, energy conservation, digital/social services in large buildings (offices, shopping centers) => joining the discussion with interest. :)

I'd like to see things like "accidental social real life contacts" be initiated by intelligent systems (telco, wifi, social networks) => i.e. I'd like to get messages like "VisualRadio is also in this same shopping center as you" => resulting in business for telcos (calls, sms's), ths shopping centers (people will enjoy coffee/beer, spend more time and money, etc.) AND we will all be happier :)

(ok, a little off from the automation, will get to those points later :) )

@troppone I'd like to invite you to Future Store Concept Basecamp where we've been transatlantic thinktanking about future stores, store community managers, etc. Here is a quiet discussion about #FutureStore I'd like to get more life into that discussion as well. But let me know your emails for the Basecamp for invitation (if you like to be invited). Send your email to helgekeitel at gmail.com I also invite @paulswansen to this discussion.

Thanks @visualradio! I'll be happy to join and a bring a few other people along.

@visualradio , the language tag :)

@eholmila Thanks for the advice!

Open Innovation is a thing that other people are thinking about as well: "More than 600 people registered to attend Atlanta Linux Fest, which was held Sept. 19. Many of the standing-room-only sessions focused on Canonical and Ubuntu."