Qaiku | #midgard | Starting midgard gathering in Lodz Poland.

The plan for the weekend is on the Midgard site http://www.midgard-project.org/community/events/mi...

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Henri is going to have first talk about ratatosk and Midgard in general

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Henri is talking about development of Midgard system within 11 years. "Ragnaroek isn't so bad".

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Midgard is divided to three parts, content repository, MVC and CMS. It has to compete with other famous systems like Drupal, django and couchDB. Can we do it better? - - Perhaps Midgard 2 is the anwser.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Midgard 2 provides runtime, information about changes and lots of toolkits. Also important part of it's is replication.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Workspaces are unique idea, that creates "virtual databases" or "branches" and makes development or content managing more faster and easy.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Midgard should not be just these three parts; MVC, CMS or Repository. It should be "Web development kit" . Vision: "CMS is IDE for content" - bergie

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Putting code in to the database, not just snippets,.. schemas, styles and additional settings.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Working with workspaces makes development more secure and easier. Testing is also faster. Code in the database can be also replicated easily and makes thing easier and faster. again.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Sharing those codes through repository is kind of "app store" of the Midgard. Simple deveploment of components and features.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Discussion: Why is some of the code stored in FS, Wrong turn in development of Midgard.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Midgard 2 is built for the future or emerging technology. HTM5, Geolocation... etc.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Getting started with Midgard 2:
- Install Midgard 2 WDK to any computer
- Build your app on runtime
- Install Midgard 2 to server
- Replicate!

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Focusing on apps, instead of the core to make Midgard 2 more usable.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Runtime need a setup tool-> Easier development of applications for everyone. To every OS / user. Example: Ubuntu

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

We need to create ubuntu-like user experience.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Splitting Midgard to websites. Midgard 1 as industrial CMS, Midgard 2 as WDK, openpsa and Midgard association.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

CMS and UI has to be:
-Simple
-faster
-Easy to include. Whole UI as one JS-include.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

CMS user interface:
every object you see is editable. wysiwyg-idea. Object actions. MVC controller is responsible for actions for the container.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Admin interface has to stay, asgard should be more like PHPMyAdmin. Object tree viewing and possible queries. Workflow view. for viewing active streams, moving content and replication.

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Design ideas about UI:
-Good design is good.
-It sells well
-Takes peoples values to account
-Does not lie
-Is easy

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Being able to do your craft without a lot of visible effort

aslani commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 10.04.2010 (en)

Discussion about revising release targets:

Midgard 10.05 Ratatoskr will be LTS of Midgard2 series and contain MidgardQuerySelect, GObject Introspection, PHP snippet inclusion and drop support for libgda3
Ratatoskr+1 will be the "midgard3" release with binary GUIDs, workspaces, MgdSchemas in database etc

bergie commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

We're hacking Midgard MVC with @indeyets to make it run on the PHP Application Server. This would make Runtime installations a lot easier as we wouldn't need to bother with things like lighttpd.

Couple of considerations with App Server:

header(), setcookie() and friends must be run through dispatcher
your code should never die() or exit(), instead finish a request through dispatcher
classes are loaded only once ever, not per request. This may affect static variables

bergie commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

How about Ratatosk's Vala support? And the "initial" stability. Lot's work work has been done for getting Mjölnir more or less stable. Is those parts that have been tested good been used also in Ratatosk or rewritten?

tepheikk commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

@tepheikk Ratatoskr will have complete Vala and C# support (in addition to existing PHP and Python). As for stability, I'd imagine .0 will have a few hidden landmines laying around ;-)

bergie commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

Progress: Midgard MVC mostly runs in App Server, and Midgard Runtime is able to use App Server instead of lighty.

Also: we're hacking on MVC's new forms system with @TomiS, the birthday boy.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

@tepheikk Did you look at this example? I hope initial stability won't be so bad. In Mjolnir we fixed many GDA issues in fact.

piotras commented on posted to #midgard 10.04.2010 (en)

@solt told that Midgard2 on Windows is also progressing: Core has compiled on MingGW and can already create a database. Next we should look at midgard-php

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

Keep on the good work guys!

Jemiweb commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

Some templating discussion... seems people are ready to abandon TAL as the default templating engine in MVC in favor of plain old PHP. After all, PHP is a template engine.

But don't worry, TAL will remain as an option that you can enable in route configuration.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

Midgard3 discussion. @netblade is playing Massive Attack's Three, my lucky number. Codename proposed in Hrungnir, the mythological giant with a triangular heart.

Initial schedule:

April: git workflow plan
May: Ratatoskr (Midgard2 LTS) is out, there is a Ubuntu PPA for the stack, and we migrate Midgard trunk to GitHub
June: UI hacking session, Runtime+AppServer+MVC stack works on Ubuntu and Mac
September: Core and language bindings freeze
October: MVC and UI freeze, 2 demo applications
November: Documentation and website
December: Midgard3 release

Hrungnir's "triangular heart" is the following components: Content Repository, MVC and Runtime.

Hrungnir+1 is scheduled for May 2011.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

@indeyets and @mdk are working on the Midgard Runtime installer. With Runtime you will get a Bundle that defines the directory structure and configuration files a Midgard2+AppServer+MVC setup needs. Then you run the installer to create a named Deployment based on the bundle under your ~/.midgard2.

There will also be a .desktop file that enables you to launch that particular runtime deployment.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

A bit of a crazy idea: thanks to Workspaces we can de-emphasize write-level access controls and move to a more git-like model of "anybody can write, but only selected people can publish".

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

.NET program compiled with VS2008 using midgard2-csharp assembly successfully created valid Midgard objects. On Windows XP :-P

Good work, @solt and @piotras !

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

The Midgard MVC forms system is now running fine. See a usage example in http://gist.github.com/362782

(thanks @TomiS)

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

@W_I just demoed using Midgard2 as the content repository with Pylons, the Python MVC framework.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

All in all, a pretty amazing Gathering. It is great to see the group working with completely different tools, technologies and platforms, but all using Midgard2 in them.

Now it is time to head to Poznan. Tomorrow's conversations shall be about Midgard on Qt and OpenPSA with Kolab

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Radogoszcz 11.04.2010 (en)

Commited changes to Midgard runtime. Lighttpd is out, we work with AppServer now. The bundle installer for Linux is almost done, misses just the initial database creation and desktop files/integration.

mdk commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

Please, tell me why on earth code should be stored in database instead of filesystem? That sounds a bit...ehm...hazard, innit?

mtarvainen commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

I can imagine: If you create cloud application and your database is synchronized/distributed over network --> it's nice that new version of system is automatically deployed.

I believe this is not use case for this?

Ile commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@mtarvainen And why should be stored in filesystem instead of database? :)

piotras commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@piotras FS is simple, DB is not. With FS you can use any cvs, with DB you have to invent your own.

Ile commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@Ile Then Gnome VFS (for example) is false project. I do not think FS is simple. How easy is to rename all 'foo' to 'bar' directories on your disk? cvs might be an issue, but only if you take files into account.

piotras commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@piotras It's not easy but I don't have that kind of need either.. VFS looks interesting

Ile commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@Ile Yes, you don't, today. But you might tomorrow. All in all, what you really need, is to manage the data.

piotras commented on posted to #midgard 11.04.2010 (en)

@Ile basically the idea is that a CMS is just a specialized IDE. If we move code to the database we can deploy and manage it with same tools and workflows as the content. And VFS is still possible, as is WebDAV (the latter we have built-in right now).

...and nowadays you also have pretty nice in-browser code editors

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Jeżyce 11.04.2010 (en)

I see the point of moving some of the data from files to a db. My personal data storage is going to be structured, though simple enough to hold all sorts. I just hate parsing files and databases give at least some structure.

ferrix commented on posted to #midgard 12.04.2010 (en)

@ferrix it will force us to provide atomic APIs for that data which is very important for the future.

bergie commented on posted to #midgard Schiphol 13.04.2010 (en)

#midgard

aslani said

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